Casper and Lion articles referenced by David Crayford:

Readers RESPOND
Posted By: igots2no [Send E-Mail]
Date: Thursday, 28-Apr-2016 12:39:06

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=45665

and Lion's comments:

Not What This Forum Is About
Posted By: Lion [Send E-Mail]
Date: Thursday, 28-Apr-2016 11:28:28
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=45662

________________________________________________________________

DAVID CRAYFORD -------- OH DEAR, SOME PEOPLE JUST CANNOT SEETHE WOOD FOR THE TREES, OR MAYBE IT’S BECAUSE THEY ARE TOTALLY LOST IN THE JUNGLE OF MISINFORMATION................................

CASPER. I bloodied your nose once and I will do it again because you Casper are one of a few who have propagated and perpetuated, to Hundreds if not Thousands of the Prosperity Program participants; the “False Hope” of the Prosperity Programs paying out, and you have been doing that for 20 + years despite all what has been published by me and others in respect of same.

Now you are trying to get back at me with the Wikipedia article which I and others have debunked numerous times. WHY? Are you still trying to discredit me and the ITC / OITC. Is it to save your own face (once again)? You are, as one reader quite rightly states, insulting the intelligence of people and I for one do not believe that you have the right to do that.

Furthermore, it proves to me that you believe everything you read without reading the “small print” or investigating who or what actually owns and operates the Wikipedia site. Your sources are no better than 2 women having a good old gossip over the garden fence every Monday morning after hanging the washing out to dry, because whatever you have stated never happens, and never will.

You have given people enough misinformation over the years, and you are still doing it. If I was one of the participants, lucky for you I am not, I would be stringing you up from the nearest lamp-post.

Below is an extract from my previous post regarding Wikipedia:-

Extract: Below are the findings of the aforesaid experts / specialist, and my own findings which support the findings of the experts / specialists. Most of these are quite simple as they are stated within “Wikipedia’s” own Terms and Conditions (Something that the majority of people, including the U.K. Police and Lawyers tend to ignore):-
Findings and Statement of the Expert / Specialist

I, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx hereby reiterate my earlier expert statement herein, quote “SO AS TO THE QUESTION CAN "WIKIPEDIA" BE USED AS A RELIABLE SOURCE OF FACTUAL INFORMATION? IN MY EXPERT OPINION I WOULD SAY DEFINITELY NO IT CANNOT”, and further add, BY “WIKIPEDIA’S OWN ADMITTANCE, AS STATED BELOW IN ITALIC UNDERLINED TYPE, quote “The structure of the project allows anyone with an Internet connection to alter its content. Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information”.

My expert opinion is further supported by the fact that the word “Encyclopedia” ensues that the source of information is provided by verifiable experts ……………(Official quote from Encyclopedia.com, the subject heading is “Reference Information you can Trust” Encyclopedia.com has more than 100 trusted sources, including encyclopedias, dictionaries, and thesauruses with facts, definitions, biographies, synonyms, pronunciation keys, word origins, and abbreviations).
“Wikipedia” actually uses the word “Encyclopedia” within its Website, quote “WELCOME TO WIKIPEDIA, THE FREE ENCYCLOPEDIA THAT ANYONE CAN EDIT”, implying to the public that it is an Encyclopedia, when in reality the content of “Wikipedia” is written, or provided by the public using pseudonym names, as well as some self proclaimed experts without any means of verifying either said experts or public contributors, or in some cases the content of what is written.
There is a further questionable point, being that there are never any dates stated within articles to determine whether an article is historic or current.

Findings of the Expert / Specialist and myself.

I further make comment regarding “Wikipedia’s” own Source: Wikipedia : General disclaimer which states:-

“WIKIPEDIA MAKES NO GUARANTEE OF VALIDITY”

“The structure of the project allows anyone with an Internet connection to alter its content. Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information”.

and:

“JURISDICTION AND LEGALITY OF CONTENT”

Publication of information found in Wikipedia may be in violation of the laws of the country or jurisdiction from where you are viewing this information. The Wikipedia database is stored on servers in the United States of America, and is maintained in reference to the protections afforded under local and federal law. Laws in your country or jurisdiction may not protect or allow the same kinds of speech or distribution. Wikipedia does not encourage the violation of any laws, and cannot be responsible for any violations of such laws, should you link to this domain or use, reproduce or republish the information contained herein”.

and:

“NOT PROFESSIONAL ADVICE”

If you need specific advice (for example, medical, legal, financial or risk management) please seek a professional who is licensed or knowledgeable in the area”.

The above is extracted from a report re: “the Content of Wikipedia” issued to me by a specialist who is currently (A witness for the Defence) using the information in a criminal court action brought by the U.K. Police and the C.P.S. against an individual who was, for no reason whatsoever, stopped by the Police, arrested, and temporarily detained and then charged and bailed by the Police.
Having seen copies of some of the Police evidence, it is plainly obvious, even to a blind man, that the Police have openly stated and admitted using “Wikipedia” for their investigations. Then they have continued by fabricating evidence in support of their own ineptitude and inability to conduct a proper investigation whereby they have fabricated evidence which is conflicting between differing Police Officers and contrary in content.

Finally, on this section of my response article I will refer to the comments made by ZAP in his most recent article.

Of course his contacts are going to say something completely different to what I am stating. Does ZAP honestly believe that his contacts, which includes Bankers, are going to openly admit being involved in fraud against the Collateral Accounts. Of course they aren’t, they are not that stupid, but just look at the record of the Prosperity Programs ------------ 20 years plus and they still haven’t paid out. That should tell any sane and sensible person that there is a huge problem with the Prosperity Programs and that serious questions need to asked as to WHY, and WHAT IS THE PROBLEM, then one can only hope that they are going to get the truth from those involved, which is very doubtful considering the criminal activities involved.
Is ZAP that naive to believe that his contacts are any different from hardened criminals, the latter of which will never admit their involvement in a crime They rely on their Lawyers, the Courts and any weakness in the Police evidence and hope they are proven not guilty.

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http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=45662

The Rumor Mill News Reading Room

Not What This Forum Is About
Posted By: Lion [Send E-Mail]
Date: Thursday, 28-Apr-2016 11:28:28

Dear Lion,

I disagree with many of your comments and I will explain why.

I agree that people do have a right of an opinion. However, to use that opinion, or better still to use ones’ position as an Administrator of RMN, to propagate ones’ own opinion is to purposely persuade others that your opinion is correct, or holds a degree of truth, and all others are wrong. That really does amount to defamation.

You as an Administrator should be totally unbiased which I do not believe you have been, and I will explain this below. How you have structured the paragraph below is strongly implying that the OITC is part of this 1% predator / parasites being, the Fed, to the City of London, to the Vatican Bank, to Bank One, to the IMF, the World Bank, the IMF, the BIS, the UN, the 'OITC', and the ESF – Exchange Stabilization Fund, which is totally unbecoming and unwarranted. Maybe it is because your command of the English language, its grammar, and structuring, is below average in which case you should not be an Administrator for RMN at all.

Your previous comments, quote “The deep set corruption is evident in all central banking and governments - from the Fed, to the City of London, to the Vatican Bank, to Bank One, to the IMF, the World Bank, the IMF, the BIS, the UN, the 'OITC', and the ESF – Exchange Stabilization Fund – the secret financial black hole no one talks about - where all the working stiffs producers productivity goes - but only the 1% predator/parasites know exists.”

D.C. Allowing you a small degree of compassion for your lack of knowledge of the English Language, you could have stated something like, “As for the OITC, I am still not clear in my mind as to where they actually fit in, whether it is with the Predator / Parasites or whether they are who they claim to be and are really trying to assist Humanity”, or, “In respect of the OITC, I will reserve judgement until I know more”, or, something similar without implying one way or another.
You didn’t, You just placed the OITC in your list of Predators / Parasites without just cause and without any evidence to substantiate your action. By doing so your opinion is biased, read by many and considered as deliberate propaganda and misinformation against the OITC. Not very professional Lion is it with you as an Administrator of RMN?

Referring now to your other comment, quote “Not What This Forum Is About”.

D.C. That is not how I understand it from Raye Allen who, with her husband Gunther Russbacher (A former Intelligence Agent), initiated the RMN website as a means to expose the truth about what the CIA, George Bush, etc were doing, but with Truth under the guise of “Rumour” which is exactly how inside information about the covert operations, drug running, theft and fraud, operated by the CIA, and other elite gangsters, got out / gets out to the public.

That, getting the truth out, is exactly what I have been doing for many years, being very careful not to breach International Official Secrets Laws.
Now you are saying, NO, that is not the purpose of the RMN site. Its purpose is, quote “Opinions in print can often inspire action. Even though the reader may not agree with the opinion stated, the thought reaction of the reader, toward the opinion stated in the text, can lead to a better understanding of the topic under discussion in the text.”

That statement Lion makes RMN and its Administrators no better than the Main Stream Media (MSM) for which the Alternative Media was, at one time, considered as a Truthful Portal of Information, or a more truthful portal of information. Now you are saying that is not the case at all.

I think we all need Raye Allen to make a statement here as to who is correct on this issue, and possibly, if I am correct in what I have stated, bring the necessary corrections to RMN and its RMN Administrators. At this juncture let me be a little more specific because my comments here are not applicable or aimed at some of the Administrators I am aware of, nor the Administrators I have had no connection with at any time. I am also convinced that many of the Readers of RMN would certainly like this matter clarified because there are many who write to me believing that RMN is actually publishing the truth. What a shock that would be for many, knowing that it claims it only publishes opinions, supposition, conjecture, which in fact categorises RMN no different to the MSM or even Wikileaks.. What a sorry state of affairs.

Now for your comments, quote “but just the same you will not see any differing results coming from the "OITC" - save for expressing that "everyone else is in the wrong".

D.C. I beg your pardon Lion, and I will substantiate that statement for you.

Neil Keenan’s comments, videos, etc, shows his arrogance and his Maverick approach to a very complex subject.. He has shown what he considers as proof, which were copy documents (Not even Certified copies) implying they were originals and valid. Try telling that to a Bank when you walk into the bank and make demands. They will soon kick you out or have you arrested.

Then there was the Video of the box of gold which was forcefully opened and shown on video. What they thought was Gold was fake because Gold does not tarnish but Keenan was elated that they had gold which cost him $20,000 USD only to eventually find out it wasn’t Gold and that he had been conned out of $20,000 USD. One day Keenan will be arrested for his unlawful activities, despite any protection he may claim he has from these Predators and Parasites, who also exist in Indonesia.

It should also be remembered that Keenan stated that he had destroyed the OITC in 2011 following the demise of Ray Dam. NO HE DID NOT. He actually strengthened the OITC and gave us all new impetus and determination because of his joint negative activities with Scott.

Keith Scott (confirmed as being listed in CIA Australian Field Office) is a man with a big chip on his shoulder because he did not get Ray Dam’s position after setting Ray Dam up for his demise. He, along with Keenan, prepared unlawful documents for Ray Dam to sign while he was in the hospital. Those documents would have put Ray Dam deeper into the quagmire than the one he was already in, just so Scott / Keenan could take over the Collateral Accounts. Scott’s video was full of BS with absolutely no proof at all to substantiate what he was stating, which is typical of Scott. This man is a person who should not be trusted with the dust on the floor, let alone anything he actually states.

Karen Hudes / Wolfgang Struck displayed several documents all of which were fake or forged but they couldn’t accept that factor and still hinged on them as being real. First it was the Green Hilton Agreement which has been void ever since Johnson was sworn in as President in Dallas following the death of Kennedy. Then they went onto the Successor Bi-lateral Minesfield Breakthrough Agreement, which was a Fake. All of which Hudes had obtained from Struck and Struck had obtained from some Filipinos. Furthermore, what they fail to understand is that all such agreements, even if they held any valid agreements at one time or another, were superseded by the 1995 Treaty, the 2012 Treaty, and the “Sovereign Decrees” dated 12th June 2012, enacted into law on 1st July 2012”.
Casper, ois an issue I have already attended to above, so I will make no more comments on this.

The evidence I have shown, or had published by others, in the form of documents can all be verified as real and genuine because they are either originals or certified copies of originals. In fact at one time a document I presented for publication was clearly marked “Top Secret” which RMN refused to publish because it may have brought them into dispute with the law. I accepted that and withdrew the document.

Yet, Lion, you still have the audacity to include the OITC within the list of Predators / Parasites. Shame on you for your unwarranted opinions.
Your comments, quote “When it comes to control over vast amounts of wealth, all men become little men - self serving little wimps who will do or say anything to maintain their position in the game. “

D.C. What a totally biased opinion, and that is from a person who is not so worldly experienced as he believes he is. There are, and have been, both men and women out there who are anything but ‘Self Serving Little Wimps” but you are too blinkered and biased to see it. The new ITC is one of them, alongside the likes of Kennedy (assassinated), Marcos (degraded and ridiculed until he died), Soekarno, Mother Teresa, and many Royal Families throughout the world.

Remember it is the Royal Families (which you appear to hold an “Anti” factor) Wealth that has been dedicated and assigned by them for the benefit of the countries and people of the world. Yet again you categorise all of these in the same “little men - self serving little wimps” category. It is not the wealth of Governments, or the likes of the Rothschilds or Rockefellows, all of whom have done their best to steal the wealth over many decades. Shame on you Lion. You have looked at truth with your eyes and denied it and then with your negative words are trying to persuade others that you are correct in categorising the ITC / OITC with the Predators and Parasites. Shame on you Lion for your attempt to wrongly influence others.

Despite your claims that you have investigated this matter over 30 years you really do not have a clue what it is all about, yet you makes comments, which are actually your own opinions and supposition that do have an impact, positively or negatively, with other readers because on the way you structured your comments Shame on you for your unwarranted opinions.

Your comments, quote “There are no men left standing who are big enough, or internally strong enough to do what all the con-artist shysters and talking head gurus are promising.”

D.C. Just don’t kid yourself Lion, there is but you just cannot see it, and with that in mind you should not be making such biased comments / opinions that may sway other people / readers.

Your comments, quote “The above grouping is THE MAIN SOURCE of the world wide game of coercion and grand theft - or designing and implementing schemes which steer the productivity, and enslavement of the masses to benefit ONLY a select few at the top of the corporate pyramid.”

D.C. This is one part of your article I do agree on, but only to a small degree. However, I see many on RMN and many people other Websites complaining, moaning, criticising, ridiculing, etc, about their country and the group of people you are referring to, but never taking any other concerted action other than voicing their opinions. You want change, then make it happen. Stop moaning, criticising, complaining and do something about it along with your fellow countrymen, because it is your duty and responsibility within your own country. It is not the duty or responsibility of others who live outside your country. There are many things you could do, and one of those is working together with others in your country, in a united front, to demand change. You are the ones who vote these people into power (Where voting is applicable) and it is your apathy after that which gives them the power that you don’t like. Don’t expect others who live outside your country to assist you. If you cannot do this for your country and fellow countrymen, you should not expect others to do it for you. You should also expect and accept the consequences of your lack of action.

We are doing our job despite all the interference, and negative influence from the likes of Keenan, Hudes, Casper, and others. We have also been completely verified, using the correct protocols, by several countries, so don’t tell us or others who and what we are because you just do not know. Those countries who have verified us, along with their people will be the ones who progress positively into the future, leaving the likes of America, the UK, Germany, and other western countries lagging far behind. It will happen, so just watch and wait.

Your comments, quote “How is it possible the OITC - ITC is NOT connected to any of the above predators?”

D.C. Why on earth do you expect us to be hand in hand with the Predators / Parasites. In fact they are actually subservient to the ITC / OITC because the ITC / OITC is a “Sovereign:” in its own right, officially it stands above and beyond all other “Sovereign Nations” and International Organisations such as the IMF and World Bank, we have our own jurisdiction, we are totally independent, and we are neutral in all matters concerning Politics and Religion.

We were structured that way so that we did hold complete independence and were over and above all others, to prevent any interference in our work and operations. Unfortunately, those who you refer to as Predators / Parasites have deliberately ignored the International Treaties that are applicable, even though they executed the International Treaties; much to the distaste of many benevolent Royals who unfortunately really do not have much political power other than being a constitutional Head of State, although they do have the power of specific decisions reference to the Collateral Accounts (Global Debt Facility) via the new ITC, a very dedicated, strong minded, and formidable person who should not be considered at any time as a person associated with the Predators and Parasites for which your opinion clearly indicates / implies.

It is this complete ignorance of the applicable laws and the arrogance shown by these elite crooks and rogue governments that we are fighting, and the last thing we want is for you Lion, and others giving completely unwarranted statements / opinions based upon your own suppositions and incorrect opinions that put the ITC / OITC in the same category of Predators and Parasites.

Your comments, quote “As I have stated before, Mr Crayford, the only 'dog I have in this fight' is results.”

D.C. You expect far too much too soon. 100 + years of corruption, theft and fraud is going to take a lot longer that just a few years to resolve. There are many facets of this problem whereby not one of them can be taken in isolation because everything is inter-linked and has been deliberately structured in that manner since WW II to make the complexity a problem in itself.

In a way it is similar to the 2007 / 8 Financial problem. The root cause(s) of the problem have not yet been resolved and so the real problem lingers on and on to the point where hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people are suffering. The Austerity, the Bank buy-ins, the negative interest rates, the slow growth, and so on, all of which bring suffering to the people. What people like Keenan, Hudes, Struck, Scott are unlawfully doing is the equivalent of a grain of sand in the Sahara Desert but such things do bring other problems to be resolved. One really has to get to the core of the problem and resolve it, not ignore it, then and only then will the world become more stable and people’s lives more comfortable.

If you want results, then let the real people (ITC) get on with their job without you putting “Predator and Parasite” labels around their necks which is not only damaging but also takes up my valuable time trying to educate you, and others.

What you appear to be doing is ignoring the fact that people like Keenan, Hudes, Struck, Scott, are actually working in conjunction with those you refer to as Predators and Parasites, but I do not see the same opinions you give about the ITC / OITC being levied against those named above ------------ WHY? Is it because you want results and they appear to give you what you want, or say what you want to hear, in the short term. That appears to me to be a similar philosophy to those participants of the Prosperity Programs who expected quick profits so they could, or some of them, live a more comfortable life, which after 20 + years has never happened. Quick profits (Solutions) are usually attached to unscrupulous dealings ------- No profits at all, plus financial loss after 20 + years are a result of a scam, and a big one at that. Yet some people still want to hear the words “ The Prosperity Programs will pay out”. You can’t have it both ways Lion.

Your complete lack of understanding and your anxiety for a “quick fix” portrays your naivety and the naivety of many others who think like you. Such “Quick Fixes” will always result in bigger problems on a longer term basis, just as the Financial Crisis of 2007 / 8 and the so-called solutions at the time, have shown all of us some 9 years later that the real problems still exist, and its getting worse not better.You can’t have it both ways Lion.

Understand one issue Lion. There are many people within the ITC / OITC who are putting their lives on the line to help resolve the massive problems that exists and were created by these Predators and Parasites, yet you have the audacity to place the ITC / OITC’s name within the same category as these Predators and Parasites. An unwarranted and unnecessary act by you --- for what reason, I wonder.

Finally, let me attend to yet another problem that has reared its ugly head quite recently.

The PANAMA PAPERS.

I have received numerous communications from people concerning this matter and all with similar content which is a question, quote “What will happen to all the money in those accounts which isn’t theirs and is not backed by Gold”

WHOA, WHOA UP, what the hell is going on here ------ THE MONEY IN THOSE ACCOUNTS WHICH ISN’T THEIRS AND IS NOT BACKED BY GOLD.

If you have an account with substantial funds in that account but the money is not yours, then who does the money belong to? And, the money is not backed by Gold. No money is backed by Gold so just what is in those accounts.

I am aware that various Intelligence Agencies have got hold of this and are now thoroughly investigating the matter. What initially this, or some of it, appears to be is money transfers from the Collateral Accounts by Server to Server transactions which have ended up in accounts (Nominee Accounts) of people who receive a small cut for their cooperation by having those accounts in the names of innocent people and then transferring money to the accounts (Wire Fraud) for eventual transfer of same, less the small cut, to other accounts somewhere else. It is what is called, or referred to as “Chain Fraud” and this time it appears, at this juncture, to involved illegal transfers of money from the Collateral Accounts.

Another problem, or previously hidden facet of the bigger problem, that indicates the unlawful involvement and fraud against the Collateral Accounts which now involves the ITC / OITC in sorting out yet another problem created by the Predators and Parasites.

There is no point in me continuing because if you haven’t got the point now, you probably never will, and you will go on putting labels on people or parties without just cause, so let me leave it at that for the time being, and advise you, Casper and ZAP that we are watching, closely I add.

Regards

David P. Crayford.